Wednesday, June 08, 2005

amusement?

So, ok, this is the long, interesting post. At least I think it's interesting.

Anyway, in Con Law 2 yesterday we were talking about Affirmative Action. And then last night, one guy sent a mass email to everyone in class. I don't want to post them whole email here, since I don't have his permission, but I will summarize it.

First, he went on for a bit saying that he had grown up in a racially tense environment, that there had been incidents at his high school because of racism and racist policies, and how many of his jobs had been run by racists. He then went on to talk about examples of how the system had kept minorities down. One example was this: when government bodies want to start affirmative action, they need data to prove that there was discrimination and racism in the recent past such that affirmative action would be pertinant and would work to fix an existing problem.

He used this and other examples to suggest that the "system" was doing things like this to make it more difficult, and economically bad, to have affirmative action. He then complained at how much lawsuits cost, and how long it takes. He suggested that the government and the courts are actively or passively discouraging racial equality. He then said that if you were white and unable to get into the school of your choice because of affirmative action, you didn't take full advantage of being white. He said that it was because you hadnt worked hard enough. He said that these people were lazy racist pigs, and it wasn't that someone took their spot, it was that they never had the spot.

It's interesting, because his examples were backwards from what the courts intended. Government agencies had to spend lots of money on proving past racism so that they weren't doing quotas, and so that they were in fact balancing the playing field.

As to the other comments, about spots and all, I'm not sure how to respond. Are there spots? And does affirmative action affect those as much as people think? I dunno, it sounded like this guy had a chip on his shoulder and wasn't thinking very clearly...


Next, there was a second, reply email. This email said the following:

First, it apologized for more spam, but since a liberal terrorist had already spammed us, he would too. He said that it's true that racism is still around, but efforts were being made. It then says that Law School is a place for debate and discussion. I have to quote one of his paragraphs, as it is very funny.

"For my part, before coming to FSU Law, I was of the opinion that all
conservatives were congenitally incapable of reason--let me rephrase, I
thought conservatives were a bunch of ignorant dumbasses. Imagine my
surprise to discover that among my classmates are many intelligent,
thoughtful conservatives who deserve my respect: both as individuals and
for their views, many of which I continue to--respectfully--disagree with."

I was quite amused.

And then he was proven wrong, in class.

So someone asked if the prof had gotten the email, which he hadn't. So someone read the first email aloud. Several people then raised their hands. One, a girl I had already pegged as a MORON brought up the second email (which hadnt been read in class).

She says "My favorite part was the bit about how conservatives were congenitally incapable of thought."
She did not put it into context or anything. EVERYONE got the email, did she think everyone else was as dumb as she was?? So yeah, she proved the guy wrong. Apparently there is at least one conservative incapable of thought, and i'd bet its genetic.

Then another guy raised his hand and said "I'm not paying 1000 dollars per credit hour to have a debate. I'm here to have the professor talk so I can learn what I need for the Bar Exam."
Yet another dumbass. He's really paying the money so that FSU can tell the ABA that he took the class. BUt thats a side note.
The professor, I think, got a little irritated by this, as I would have. He said "Well, learning the doctrine was important, but debating the issues are just as important if not more important. Since yeah, the doctrine is important for the Bar and stuff, but the ideas behind the doctrines are what we will be dealing with for the next 40 years."

And then we discussed the issues for a bit. The discussion was me and the prof and like 2 other people, and ti went on for an hour. At one point I asked a good question, I thought. Then another guy from farther down the aisle gives me the thumbs up. But this guy is the annoying guy in class - Do I really want HIM giving ME the thumbs up?

Anyhow, it was a good discussion about whether the court should try and force racial equality on society, or if society should work on it on its own. The court really would have difficulty making us do things, because its gonna cost money, and people don't like spending money on other people, and we would end up with the Boston Tea Party all over again. So that's bad. So we're stuck in this loop of the court'sd suggest stuff, and over time it gets accepted, and then from the bottom up society changes, and then more suggestions are made, and people eventually agree... OK, it's a cycle.

Anyhow, that's about it. I will post more later, about Catan.

5 comments:

Crystal said...

So I think 'afirmative action' should be geared towards 'under privaledged'. This meaning those who are in situations that are difficult to recover from. To use the over used example, if you live in the slums of Harlem you will have a hard time going places in life no matter what race you are. People who live and work on farms and want to go to college have a hard time finding the funding for such endevors, these people need help 'changing their station' in life.

I think that we need to focus less on peoples race and more on people who have needs that need a little boost to be achieved. If in the end this turns out to be mostly 'minorities' then so be it. But we need to help the people who need help and not base this distiction on race.

I also sometimes wonder how hard it really is for families to dig themselves out of the hole. My family is filled with illegal immigrants who came to america and had no money and spoke no english. But on both sides there are familes that in three generations managed to come from working poverty jobs to just reaching into upper class. Thats with no luck, no inheritance and no windfalls, just hard work.

Maybe it is because I am white and have never been on the other end of the stick. I am not sure really what it is like to live as a minority personally, but from where I stand it seems to me that if you want to live a certain life you can probably get there.

On a side note, in NY supposedly the 'minority population has reached over 50%... doesn't this mean that white people are the minority? This also branches into the topid of the amount of interratial breeding. We are moving towards a mixed race (white often does not dominate in breeding couple of mixed races) forming something like the new Betty Crocker... so what will become of race then? Will we still debate how white or black we are by how light or dark our color is?

Bah I posted almost as much as Andy....

Anonymous said...

From yesterday's news, if you would like to add some current events to your in-class discussion:San Francisco Chronicle

nobbit said...

It seems that there is always "that guy/girl" in every law school class. I think maybe in every college class. As I told you before, better a thumbs up from annoying guy than idiot girl. annoying doesn't always equal dumb, just poor communication and thought processing. As far as affirmative action goes, I think it's like communism---It's a good idea in theory, but not in practice. In my Economic Debate class in undergrad we discussed AA. Even people who wanted it agreed that it is not the best way to do things. It provides negative incentives and costs a lot of money.

I also think that in some ways it prolongs the racial issue. Maybe I feel this way because I am not a noticable minority (I am legally a Native American but I look like my Irish/Scottish ancestors). I have always had friends who were not white. I never thought of them as black or asian or hispanic. They were who they were. I do admit that there is racism in our society, but I don't think that AA is going to solve that problem.

I agree with Crystal that if anything, an economic status based system may actually provide the service that the government is desiring. An uneducated white person is going to have just as much trouble as any other uneducated person.

Also, how do we define race? We had a really interesting conversation with Jerris about that as he discussed it in a multi-culture based class. If you have parents of different races, which are you? Both? Must you choose one or the other? Why can't you embrace both heritages? We are such a melting pot of a country that almost everyone has some sort of mixed background. It used to be that Irish and Italians were discriminated against. Where they seen as white or as Irish? Countries in Africa have racial issues. Battles and horrendous crimes are committed in the name of race. Yet the average American would look at them all and say "black." Which opinion is correct?

There was a piece on NPR about the p.s. term "African-American." The callers were islanders and other people with dark skin who were lumped into that category but who did not associate with that heritage. They are not from Africa. Why do they have to be called that? That was the question. Are we becoming so p.c. that we've crossed into rude or uncaring of culture? Maybe I am too much of an idealist. I think we should see people for their potential and not for their skin color.

nobbit said...

Ok, I have to post again. I forgot to say stuff about the courts. I do not think they should be dictating race relations. The Court is there to interpret the law, not to make it. That is the job of the legislature.

Crystal said...

I tend to agree with Nobbit on the whole Afirmative Action works on paper but not in real life. I guess what killed my positive view of it what my senior year of high school. A slacker kid (I knew him personally) whos family was middle class got a HUGE scholarship, why did he get it? He was black. He even said so. He ranked out in the middle of the class at like 275 of 550 and got a free ride and a half, because he was black. His family was quite well to do, just as good as mine. So while it is designed to help under priviledged minorities it also gives a free ride to those minorities who are doing just fine. Those who know how to exploit the system.

I also have a lot of questions on heritage. If you ask me what I am, I will say and American. My family has been gone from the 'mother lands' for so long now that only vestiges of canadien french speaking and recipes remain. Jason is brown and recently started playing up the chinese/Hawiian card but he has not really been exposed to these cultures/traditions or even countries. Its nice to know where you can from, but I am not a Polish American, I am an American and generally proud of it. I think there would be a lot less anger if we all realized, we are all just americans.