Tuesday, January 20, 2009

Sports

I was arguing with Nobbit last night about sports. Somehow we got onto a discussion of sports and what constituted a sport and I proclaimed that Risk was a much more difficult sport than darts. To which she replied "Risk isn't a sport!!"

Then we had a big long discussion. Here is what Nobbit concluded, and I reluctantly agreed with (reluctantly because I don't like being wrong).

She said that there was a class of activities. This class has 2 sub-classes. One is sports - any competition that involves physical skill or activity done by the player himself. Sports usually also involve mental skill. The other sub-class is games. Games are competitions that involve mental skills and physical skills, though ones where the physical skills or activities can be done by another person with no difference to the outcome of the game.

So as an example, she said that Football is a sport. There is a physical activity required, that of throwing, catching, running, etc. There is also the mental skill required, that of knowing the plays, running the routes, evading other players, etc. The physical activity must be done by the player - it makes a difference if Brett Favre is playing QB or if I am playing QB.

The other example is... Risk. There is the mental aspect, that of calculating the attacks, making and breaking alliances, planning ahead, defending your places. There is also the physical requirement, that of moving the pieces, rolling the dice, etc. Game play and the outcome isn't really affected by the person doing the physical activities. For example, I could direct Nobbit in her moves and in what to do, she could roll the dice and move the pieces, and the outcome would be the same as if I did everything myself.


Now, I disagree on principle. I think her reasoning is good, but I want Risk to be considered a sport, darn it! So I began thinking of outlying cases to shake up her analysis.

My ideas were these. Video games. Sport or game? I mean, there is definitely a physical skill or activity, and a mental skill required. Take for example Tetris Attack. If you don't know it, look it up, cause I wouldn't be able to explain it well. It makes a big difference whether I play Tetris Attack or Jerris does (Jerris being really good at it and me being really bad at it). I could have the mental skills required to play a stellar game of Tetris Attack, but if I don't have the physical skill, the dexterity, I'm gonna lose if I physically play.

Second idea. A musical competition. Sport, game or neither? There is a definite physical component and there is a mental component too. Picking the right songs, not getting psyched out, not forgetting the music. And the physical skill is particular to the player. It matters who you get to play the guitar solo.

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Now, as I was writing this I got to thinking about the distinction between sport and game that Nobbit was making, and I think to help her side of the argument, I might define sport as follows:
A sport is any competition that involves some degree of specialized physical skill and some degree of specialized mental skill.

That means a sport needs the player to have specialized skill, like running, throwing etc. If another person can't do the physical activity in your place due to training and practice, that seems to suggest it's more of a sport than a game.

But still, my two ideas remain valid. Still strong. So what do you guys think... video games - sport? music competitions - sport? Or am I getting it wrong?

5 comments:

Jerris said...

I think the problem with trying to define sports/games is a bit of prejudice on the part of the definers. Everyone wants their favorite activity to be considered a sport and is likely to continue searching for a definition until they find one that fits the way they want it to. This includes myself as well. I believe there should be no subjective component to a sport. (Sorry figure skating, american idol, and slam dunk contests). Secondly I think that the amount of effort you put in at any moment should effect your level of play. I do not consider focus and effort to be the same thing so games like Jenga (or Risk) would not fit these characteristics. Have fun arguing against my biased opinions.

nobbit said...

I would like to point out that I did not exclaim that risk wasn't a sport. Andy took some creative license with punctuation. I merely stated it would not fit my definition of sport: a competitive activity requiring both a mental and physical component (agility, dexterity, strength, etc.), it being necessary that the physical be performed by the same person as the mental.

Smackymc said...

Ok, so let's take your "no subjective" point first.

Is there a sport that doesn't have a subjective component? Let's take the example of football. In football, there is definitely a subjective component. The refs subjectively decide whether a certain action constitutes a foul or not. Sure there's the replay that refs use to check, but the replay only works if there is clear evidence to reverse the call on the field. And I know there have been times when everyone has said "that call is questionable. if I were ref, I wouldn't have made that call." We see it in every sport where there is a judge or ref. And even in Ultimate, where there is no judge, we still have calls being made that are questionable. I can't really think of a sport that doesn't include some level of subjectivity.

Second, if I understand your point, you're suggesting that there is a threshold level of "effort" needed before a game can be called a sport. If that's so, what is the minimum necessary level? The level required for bowling? Darts? Pool? Or is it higher, and those games aren't in fact sports?

I definitely agree we're all biased in our views. But there's room for debate and for common ground, I think. Yeah, we'll never agree on Risk, but we can agree on things like football, swimming, track, etc.

Jerris said...

To clarify, I intended subjectivity to be the basis on which the activity is decided under all circumstances. i.e. an activity that you win because you are precieved to be better. This would mainly apply to performance based actvities regardless of difficulty. I'll use the x-games as an example. If two competitors execute the exact same maneuver, the basis of deciding who was better is partially subjective. One may have cleaner lines and better body position in the air but that is only better because some one thinks it is and there is little to determine exactly how much better. (Of course if you consider the hang-time its a little less subjective) In football a subjective call can be made which determines that outcome. However I believe this is an unfortunate characteristic of most sports/games and is not the basis on which a football game was meant to be or usually is decided.

In regards to effort, I do not consider a minimum effort level to be necessary, only that an increase in effort should result in improved performance. Assuming that the extra effort doesn't make you careless. Basically trying a little harder can help you compete a little better.

Smackymc said...

Jerris,

So to make sure I got it, you do not consider diving a sport?

I do see your point about the extent to which subjectivity is necessarily used in a game.